Show #3: PAUL STOOKEY #2 of 2 - Full Audio & Transcript
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MEL BERNAM (ANNOUNCER): Here is Radio New York Folk Music Worldwide. A program devoted to the best in folk music throughout the world. Showcasing the top performers and authorities in the field. Now your host for Folk Music Worldwide, Alan Wasser.

ALAN WASSER (HOST): With us again today is Paul Stookey of the famous folk music trio Peter, Paul and Mary. When we finished last week we promised to play 'If I Had a Hammer' which Paul said was his favorite song..

NOEL PAUL STOOKEY (GUEST): Well, let me qualify it again like I did last week. 'If I Had a Hammer' I think most accurately reflects the feelings of the group. This is also by the way, we were speaking last week of contemporary folk tunes, it's a song written by Seeger and [Lee] Hayes.

Hayes is with the Weavers and Pete used to be with them, so this is a song which is actually a young national anthem for the United States because it's a song based upon the principles of which this country was originally based upon.

ALAN: Yes.

PAUL STOOKEY: 'If I Had a Hammer' is one of the few contemporary folk tunes that I think all people agree is a contemporary folk tune that is most definitely "a folk tune."

ALAN: Well let's hear that now.

[Song performance 1 of 4: "If I Had A Hammer" by Peter, Paul & Mary]:

Lyrics:

If I had a hammer,
I'd hammer in the morning,
I'd hammer in the evening,
All over this land.
I'd hammer out danger,
I'd hammer out a warning,
I'd hammer out love between,
My brothers and my sisters,
All over this land.

Oo Oo Oo...

If I had a bell,
I'd ring it in the morning,
I'd ring it in the evening,
All over this land.
I'd ring out danger,
I'd ring out a warning,
I'd ring out love between,
My brothers and my sisters,
All over this land.

Oo Oo Oo...

If I had a song
I'd sing it in the morning
I'd sing it in the evening
all over this land
I'd sing out danger
I'd sing out a warning
I'd sing out love between
my brothers and my sisters
all over this land.

Oo Oo Oo...

Well, I've got a hammer
and I've got a bell
and I've got a song to sing
all over this land.
It's the hammer of justice
It's the bell of freedom
It's a song about love between my
brothers and my sisters
all over this land ..
.. It's the hammer of justice
It's the bell of freedom
It's a song about love between my brothers and my sisters
all over this land!

(end of music)

ALAN: You mentioned at the end of last week's show several other songs, '500 Miles,' 'I Am a Man of Constant Sorrow.' What is it about these that you like in particular?

PAUL STOOKEY: 'The Man of Constant Sorrow' actually is, as is '500 Miles', a reflection of loneliness.

There is an emotional parallel that can be drawn between most of folk music and the people who listen to it. Just because '500 Miles' was originally conceived by a fellow sitting on a porch who was 500 miles away from home, there's no reason at all why the sentiment cannot be shared with a man walking between Madison and Park on 55th street who is 500 miles away from Chicago and misses his home very much, or perhaps loneliness because he realizes that he is all alone.

And that happens, I think, quite often to people in New York City when you're walking down a busy street but you don't know anybody. This loneliness, this same emotion, this same tie I think will exist for all time.

And this is I think one of the reasons why folk music is so popular today is because regardless of when the message was originally conceived, it is applicable today.

[Song performance 2 of 4: "500 Miles" by Peter, Paul & Mary]:

Lyrics:

If you miss the train I'm on, you will know that I am gone
You can hear the whistle blow a hundred miles,
a hundred miles, a hundred miles, a hundred miles, a hundred miles,
You can hear the whistle blow a hundred miles.

Lord I'm one, Lord I'm two, Lord I'm three, Lord I'm four,
Lord I'm 500 miles from my home.
500 miles, 500 miles, 500 miles, 500 miles
Lord, I'm five hundred miles from my home.

Not a shirt on my back, not a penny to my name
Lord I can't go a-home this a-way
This a-away, this a-way, this a-way, this a-way,
Lord, I can't go a-home this a-way.

If you miss the train I'm on, you will know that I am gone
You can hear the whistle blow a hundred miles.

(end of music)

ALAN: Most of our listeners will know your trio from their records, but I understand they're quite different in concert. How are you different from the records?

PAUL STOOKEY: Well actually we've had a great deal of good response to our concerts because the concerts generally most people feel that a concert is just a redoing of the record. They feel that a group will come out and just sing their record hits and then get off the stage again, but when the group was originally put together we were three very different personalities.

I had done quite a lot of comedy work in The Village. Mary had been a very vibrant part of folk groups when she was very young and Peter had done a lot of solo work and also had received his Psychology degree at Cornell.

Because of this diversity of backgrounds, we came together in a concert situation feeling that because we were individuals, because we really were Peter and we really were Paul and we really were Mary rather than the Peter, Paul and Mary trio that on stage it should be presented. So in a concert situation after the first half there's an intermission and then the beginning of the second half we come out individually.

Peter sings the solo numbers, sings also with the people that are there. As a matter of fact in Kansas he sang with 9500 people in a field house and that required a bit of organization. Then I come out and do a bit of comedy work, which is not on any of the albums but which people who have seen us in night clubs and concerts are aware of.

ALAN: What kind of comedy work?

PAUL STOOKEY: Well as a matter of fact it's sound effects with virtually no plot. I used to do a lot of them in high school. As a mater of fact I feel one coming on now if you'd like to hear an automobile or a jet plane or a rain or any particular type. What?

ALAN: Oh, let's try rain then.

PAUL STOOKEY: Would you like some rain? All right. There.

(Paul Stookey does sound effect of rain)

ALAN: Oh, it's wet in here.

PAUL STOOKEY: Yeah, I'm terribly sorry about that. Do you have a mop?

ALAN: What about a jet plane?

PAUL STOOKEY: All right. Actually I liken this to doing bird calls for Boy Scout troops.

(Paul Stookey does sound effect of jet plane)

PAUL STOOKEY: You may wonder, how did you ever get started in sound effects? When I was in high school, we really, sitting here in this studio with you now and looking at all these, all the record players, the tape machines that are available, I realized that in high school we would have given our right arms to have sound effects records.

We didn't have any so I used to do all the sound effects for the high school. I used to do rain, jet planes, frogs, crickets, automobiles and because of this I guess I really had got involved in a fetish with some of it.

ALAN: Well what does a frog sound like as done by Paul Stookey?

(Paul does sound effect of frog)

PAUL STOOKEY: Actually I can, I could almost do a home course in sound effects for frogdom because actually all I'm saying is 'read it' and 'eat it' and if you say it very fast and a very low voice it sounds amazing like a frog.

ALAN: Good grief. And you do all this in the middle of a concert?

PAUL STOOKEY: Yeah, as a matter of fact we have integrated some of the sound effects into tunes. There is a great fun song that Woody Guthrie wrote, he also wrote 'This Land is Your Land.'

He wrote a song called 'Car Car' and I do automotive sounds within the context of the song and take them to Daytona Beach to hear sports cars and there are some Mack trucks and an old Model-T involved.

ALAN: We haven't heard any of these, how do they go?

PAUL STOOKEY: Oh, I don't want to give away all the sound effects. I have to leave something...

ALAN: All right.

PAUL STOOKEY: However, you might be, you might be interested in hearing at least the Woody Guthrie, the serious side of Woody Guthrie which is reflected in the song 'This Land is Your Land.'

ALAN: Oh marvelous, I love that song.

[Song performance 3 of 4: "This Land is Your Land" by Peter, Paul & Mary]:

Lyrics:

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me

I roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me, a voice was singing
This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I went walking that ribbon of highway
I saw above me that endless skyway
I saw below me those golden valleys
This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As the sun was shining and I was strolling
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
As the fog was lifting, a voice was saying
This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me
This land was made for you and me.

(end of music)

ALAN: No interview with any member of the trio would be complete without discussing the fact that you had some marvelous hit records, records that have gone to the popular hit parade, gone to the top of the popular hit parade which is very unusual for folk singers.

PAUL STOOKEY: Well, I think it will become less and less unusual because in my way of thinking folk music is fast approaching its pinnacle. I think in about three or four years folk music will be so popular most of the top 40 stations will be programming folk music in lieu of rock and roll because that is where the interest will lie.

It's amazing the hits that we have. I think the one, well I know the one that has sold the most, the one that has received the most acclaim and the most attention is the one that's out now and that's called 'Puff the Magic Dragon.'

It lasts about twice as long as any of the singles on the market today and yet I think its message is so beguiling. It's a rather disarming tune because it deals with a child's life and his growth.

The fact that an inanimate object, either or perhaps even an imaginary object who is made up by the child as a companion is sometime along his growing up is replaced by a certain amount of reality and yet five or ten years later when you go back and you pull out that dusty old soldier, that used to beat on the little metal drum.

There's a certain amount of nostalgia connected with it. And so actually 'Puff the Magic Dragon' has two messages, one for the kids to share and one for the adults to reflect upon.

[Song performance 4 of 4: "Puff the Magic Dragon" by Peter, Paul & Mary]:

Lyrics:

Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff,
and brought him strings and sealing wax
and other fancy stuff.

Oh, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

Together they would travel
on a boat with billowed sail
Jackie kept a lookout perched
on Puff's gigantic tail.

Noble kings and princes
would bow whene'er they came,
Pirate ships would lower their flag
when Puff roared out his name.

Oh! Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

A dragon lives forever
but not so little boys,
Painted wings and giant rings
make way for other toys.
One grey night it happened,
Jackie Paper came no more
And Puff that mighty dragon,
he ceased his fearless roar.

His head was bent in sorrow,
green scales fell like rain,
Puff no longer went to play
along the cherry lane.

Without his life-long friend,
Puff could not be brave,
So Puff that mighty dragon
sadly slipped into his cave.

Oh! Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei,

Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist
in a land called Hanalei.

(end of music)

ALAN: I love that song. How was it written?

PAUL STOOKEY: Well as a matter of fact Peter, when he was at Cornell, was sharing a room with a fella who walked in, sat down at a typewriter and typed out about three lines which had to do with a magic dragon by the name of Puff who lived in the vicinity of a land called Hanalei.

And Peter took this concept, enlarged upon it, wrote some music to it and worked some more with Lenny Lipton who was the other fella and now the two of them share this monster. They have, they own the song mutually and as a matter of fact there are a couple of other tunes that Lenny and Peter have written together.

And it was a great thrill for Lenny to have abstractly picked it out on a typewriter to find that now it was number four in the country in the singles market a couple of weeks ago.

ALAN: Yeah, it's even higher now. You say they worked on other songs together, any others...

PAUL STOOKEY: Well one of them the group did that we haven't released yet called 'Girls' which has a very, very, how should I say, delicate...well... I'll sing it if I can remember it.

Girls with your beauty as you see me riding by on my little brown pony, don't laugh or he will cry.

Which deals with, I think, an oft neglected aspect of one's little bubble that one has about them when they are a child or when they're very involved in creating something that they themselves understand completely, and are completely involved in and then somebody standing on the outside says..., I guess it would also be akin to somehow the emperor's clothes.

"Look he hasn't got any clothes," and then suddenly his bubble is burst. He thought he had a wonderful suit of clothes on.

And this 'Girls' indicates that this fellow riding with his brown pony has created this world for himself and yet they have laughed at the world and therefor the pony or the dream or the concept has been burst.

ALAN: Well these songs then were written more for adults then for children even though they're in a...

PAUL STOOKEY: Well I, actually I think most things that the kids enjoy adults enjoy from another aspects, either from having passed through it themselves or the fact that they are a little older now and have experienced a little bit more and can look back on it with a certain degree of objectivity that they couldn't when they were children.

ALAN: Well I'm afraid our time is up again. I want to thank you so much for coming back for a second time. Thank you for...

PAUL STOOKEY: Thank you very much Alan.

ALAN: Peter, Paul and Mary trio. We're hoping to have the whole trio in sometime in the near future.

PAUL STOOKEY: Well I think that we're all going to be in the city within the next month or so, so perhaps we'll get together then.

ALAN: Oh marvelous, I'd love to have the whole group in here.

PAUL STOOKEY: It was nice spending my vacation with you.

ALAN: Well, thank you very much so...

PAUL STOOKEY: Bye-bye.

MEL BERNAM (ANNOUNCER): This has been Folk Music Worldwide. Devoted to the best in folk music throughout the world and spotlighting top performers and authorities in the field. If you have any suggestions, request requests or comments why not write in to Folk Music Worldwide, Radio New York WRUL, New York City 19 USA. This has been a Music Worldwide presentation of Radio New York Worldwide.

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